Chris and Matt break down a packed few weeks in intelligence and geopolitics, opening with the resignation of Tulsi Gabbard as Director of National Intelligence — a departure framed officially around her husband's illness but widely read as an exit under pressure. Drawing on a Bulwark piece by former CIA officer John Sipher, they examine whether the ODNI was ever structurally sound enough to survive a politicized occupant, and what Gabbard's tenure — from her reversal on the IC's Iran nuclear assessment to her exclusion from senior meetings — reveals about what this administration actually wants from intelligence. From there, the episode turns to the Trump-Xi summit in Beijing, where the photo-op framing papered over a sharper story: divergent definitions of "constructive strategic stability," a $14 billion arms package for Taiwan left unsigned, and a delegation of American CEOs carrying hat-in-hand business pitches to Washington's principal strategic adversary. They also examine a New York Times investigation into Chinese intelligence's recruitment attempt of a House committee staffer — a case that doubled as a window into Beijing's priorities in the weeks before the summit. Finally, an investigation into Russia's covert cyber warfare training program at a university near Moscow, and a Telegraph profile of Oleg Gordievsky's quiet final years in rural Surrey — including a regular table at a restaurant Chris knows all too well.

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"Tulsi Gabbard’s Office Shouldn’t Exist" by John Sipher | The Bulwark: https://www.thebulwark.com/p/tulsi-gabbard-office-shouldnt-exist-director-national-intelligence-9-11

"Tulsi Gabbard’s resistance to foreign wars amid Trump’s aggression was her undoing" by Mohamad Bazzi | The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/may/24/tulsi-gabbard-foreign-wars-trump

"Tulsi Gabbard is showing why her job shouldn’t exist" by David Ignatius | The Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2026/02/05/tulsi-gabbard-trump-dni-intelligence-agency/

"China and the U.S. Agreed to ‘Strategic Stability’ in Beijing. They Don’t Define It the Same Way." by Zongyuan Zoe Liu | Council on Foreign Relations: https://www.cfr.org/articles/china-and-the-u-s-agreed-to-strategic-stability-in-beijing-they-dont-define-it-the-same-way

"What did Trump and Xi accomplish?" | Atlantic Council: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/content-series/fastthinking/what-did-trump-and-xi-accomplish/

"He Offered a Lawmaker’s Aide Quick Cash. Was He Spying for China?" by Dustin Volz | The New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/09/us/politics/china-us-spy-congressional-aide.html

"Russia’s top secret spy school teaching hacking and election meddling" by Pjotr Sauer & Shaun Walker | The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/may/07/revealed-russia-top-secret-spy-school-hacking-western-electoral-interference

"Revealed: The secret suburban life of Britain’s greatest Cold War spy" by Samuel Montgomery | The Telegraph: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/26/revealed-the-secret-suburban-life-of-britains-greatest-cold/

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Secrets and Spies is produced by Films & Podcasts LTD: https://filmsandpodcasts.co.uk/
Music by Andrew R. Bird
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Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.