For years, according to a New York Times report, Mossad quietly cultivated former Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Holocaust denier who once called for Israel's destruction, as the man it hoped to install in Tehran. The plan collapsed on the opening day of the war, when he lost his nerve in a Mossad safe house. Chris and Matt trace how a run of tactical brilliance curdled into strategic fantasy, then turn to Pickaxe Mountain — the buried nuclear site Trump keeps threatening to strike, but that even America's largest bunker-buster may not reach — and ask whether hitting it ends anything. They also examine how Japan has become a haven for Russian procurement networks supporting its war machine in Ukraine, and the forces driving political violence across the West after the killing of Ann Widdecombe, before closing on the life of the late James Woolsey, Bill Clinton's first CIA director.
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Articles discussed in today’s episode
"‘It becomes inevitable’: the toxic mix fuelling deadly political violence around world" by John Henley | The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jul/18/inevitable-toxic-mix-fuelling-deadly-political-violence-world
"Inside Israel’s Secret Operation to Cultivate Ahmadinejad" by Mark Mazzetti, Julian E. Barnes, Farnaz Fassihi & Ronen Bergman | The New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/07/13/us/politics/israel-mahmoud-ahmadinejad-iran.html
"Israel Thought It Could Spur Rebellion Inside Iran. That Hasn’t Happened." by Mark Mazzetti, Julian E. Barnes, Edward Wong & Ronen Bergman | The New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/22/us/politics/iran-israel-trump-netanyahu-mossad.html
"Trump’s Threat To Strike Iran’s Pickaxe Mountain Bunker’s 'Front Door' Underscores Targeting Challenges" by Joseph Trevithick | The War Zone: https://www.twz.com/news-features/trumps-threat-to-strike-irans-pickaxe-mountain-bunkers-front-door-underscores-targeting-challenges
"How Putin Turned Japan Into a Den of Spies" by Jane Bradley, Michael Schwirtz & Adam Goldman | The New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/07/12/world/asia/russia-spies-japan-war-drones-electronics.html
"A Russian Spy, Suddenly Cast Into the Spotlight, Flees Japan" by Michael Schwirtz, Adam Goldman & Jane Bradley | The New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/07/23/world/asia/russian-spy-flees-japan.html (published after recording)
"James Woolsey, CIA director under Bill Clinton, dies at 84" by Bob Drogin | The Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/obituaries/2026/07/21/james-woolsey-cia-director-under-bill-clinton-dies-84/
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Music by Andrew R. Bird
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Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.
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