S8 Ep23: The Secret History of Area 51 with Peter Merlin

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[00:01:41] Black History Month is a special time to spotlight the many African American

[00:01:45] and black individuals and organizations that have contributed to our area's about the ultra-secret government base deep in the Nevada desert that many of us know as Area 51. Know this episode is not about aliens, flying saucers, weather control, time travel, or shadowy one world governments. Elvis and JFK Jr. both really are dead. I'm sorry to break it to you. If that's what you're interested in, keep scrolling because there's plenty of it out there. Instead, we're talking about the real Area 51, or what could maybe more accurately be

[00:03:03] called the National Classified Test Facility, where the US Air Force has developed advanced at patreon.com forward slash secrets and spies. Generosity helps keep this podcast going. Thanks for listening and let's get started. The opinions expressed by guests on secrets and spies do not necessarily represent 51 of pop culture, the tin foil hat brigade, the conspiracy theories, but the real thing. So the US Air Force's premier classified proving ground for the development and testing of advanced military aircraft and aerospace technology. This books the culmination of 30 years of research. And I think it's entirely

[00:05:42] warranted to call this your magnum opus. Like of writing a book. I was just collecting information and, you know, after a

[00:07:00] while, people started saying, geez, you got a lot more information. So it was eventually possible to put together a pretty comprehensive narrative. Obviously, it's not a complete narrative.

[00:08:20] There are many programs that are still classified, and will remain so for many years or decades. Area 51 related stuff and that's a separate separate thing all together I was never briefed into any special access programs for again, which I'm very grateful I would not want to be in that world So I had to rely entirely on unclassified source material and that means Both documents that were at one time classified and that were subsequently downgraded to unclassified

[00:10:45] The airfield was built off the corner of the Nevada test site for nuclear weapons. And so the Atomic Energy Commission was a natural cover.

[00:10:49] There was already restrictions surrounding the area and the airspace.

[00:10:54] And so it was really easy to have the AEC draft press release saying,

[00:10:59] hey, we're building a little airfield to support our atomic testing.

[00:11:02] And they hoped that nobody would really pay much attention to that. There were some inconsistencies in the story, and it sort of pushed a little bit into the light. The base was originally called Watertown Air Strip. It was only a temporary cap during the U-2 spy plane test and training days, 1955 through summer of 57,

[00:12:24] when it was essentially closed down and a very good organizer of people.

[00:13:41] And he was also a huge personality.

[00:13:44] He kind of took over the base to of housing, quite a few more people, more than more than 1,200 people were working there for a while and the population has grown since then. So this is during the 1950s, late 1950s, early 1960s when all this really kind of began

[00:15:00] in earnest. You mentioned how right next door is the Nevada test site, I guess then controlled by It was a serious problem and partly led to the shutdown of activities in the summer of 57 because it was just going to be impossible to get anything done. Now, bases reopened again, subsequently in 1959 and in the Langley to the Air Force? And how did that kind of change the culture, the management, the sort of programs that happened there? The CIA decided in the mid-1970s that it was probably time to get out of the airplane business. And so by that time, the Air Force

[00:17:42] was a major tenant at Area 51 conducting tests of captured of visitors who came out to check out this place, but the stealth programs were coming into being at that time, the aircraft that were invisible to radar. So security UFOs or whatever, found these hilltops and decided this was a good place to camp out and take pictures and bring up binoculars. The Air Force didn't like that because any time there were unauthorized visitors on the

[00:20:23] hilltops, it meant all the activities had to stop at groom-like. Although folks have gotten some pretty amazing pictures from there. For sure. Let's unpack two of the programs you mentioned. The first that I find really interesting is, I guess, one of the more famous ones that have since been declassified and it was based not just at Groom Lake but also at Tonapot, Sister Airfield across the Nevada Test and Training Range, involved the study of captured

[00:21:41] Soviet MiGs and what the Air Force calls Foreign Material Exploitation or FME.

[00:21:46] Can you tell us a bit more about that, but what that was all about? Just really, you know, study its strengths and vulnerabilities both in a technical sense and also a tactical sense. So you have technical exploitation, which is essentially learning about how the aircraft is built, whether it's performance capabilities, generally

[00:23:07] vulnerabilities to different kinds of weapons or electronic warfare systems. And then the tactical exploitation was actually move their operation to Tonopah test range, which is up in the Northwest corner of the Nevada test and training range and They had a whole squadron of Soviet aircraft MiG-17s 21s and 23s And the Red Eagles would fly them in simulated combat against

[00:24:21] frontline US forces

[00:24:24] so that. So the pilots had to kind of get over that and pretty soon they got with the program. And that effort still continues today in some form? It does. The original constant peg training activity which went from the late 1970s to 1988 and exposed more than 6,000 US airmen to combat with the mags. That was

[00:25:43] shut down due to budget cuts but has continued on a much smaller scale because and the pilot flying it was a commander, the red hats, a guy in the back seat was getting a familiarization ride. There was a problem with the landing gear. They were not able to land safely, so the crew ejected, which continues right now to sixth gen technology. We could easily do a whole episode just on that, but if you can walk us a bit through how Groom has been involved in those efforts. Back in the 1970s, there were a lot of interesting ideas for what future combat aircraft should

[00:28:24] be. They said it looked like a Kelly Johnson said it looked like a tin shed in a hurricane, but It was a good approach from from a radar standpoint and They were able to make it fly using you know computer technology a lot for done and see for controls

[00:29:41] and From that came the demonstrator called have blue which proved the technology

[00:29:46] in a subscale form and then

[00:30:48] test that Blue came from, which gave a lot of lessons learned to what became the B2 stealth bomber.

[00:30:57] And if you look at modern aircraft, you'll see that the new B21 looks a lot like the B2, except

[00:32:20] even stealthier, and some of the compound where bin Laden was hiding 60s even the Nevada test and training range has been a place where The DoD has accumulated both actual and simulated threat systems from various and you know aggressor countries or potential adversaries So, you know, these are mostly

[00:33:45] Systems that have been sold by the Soviets to their allies and client states

[00:35:00] and acquired through a combination of of about the organization that runs the base itself, how it's structured, and maybe just in broad strokes, what happens there on a day-to-day basis today? Well, as you say, it's a wing size organization. In the Air Force, an objective wing is essentially a fairly basic construct. So Workers have to get to work, so many of them may arrive by bus from local communities. Some in personal vehicles, many of them fly in with a dedicated fleet of six, seven, 37s that operate out of Las Vegas.

[00:36:21] And when you think about how many people are working there

[00:36:26] and they'll have to move that workforce back and forth, center, which is under the Air Force material command. That's correct. Yes. And the name of the base itself, like the airfield, it's not Area 51 or has been for a long time. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things where the Air Force has said things like, well, it doesn't have a name per se, which is sort of true.

[00:37:40] I mean, yes, it is Area 51.

[00:37:43] That was an official name that an operations command operations group commander, you know, signed his name and then under that under organization just put Dreamland. So, you know, that's a legitimate name as well. And it's just

[00:39:01] slippery enough that there's some deniability for the Air Force if you

[00:39:05] try to ask them about it and they can shrug you know, location, it'll say data mast or something. But like, there's some people that you can follow. You look at their biographies and you can tell like, they've spent their entire professional careers in and around the space. It's true. And I mean, just looking for the words data mask you could peel off the hanger roofs and look down from Google Earth right now, what would you expect to see? Well, it's an interesting thing that in the past couple of decades, there's been a lot of construction

[00:41:42] of new hangers, new hangers have showed up again and again. Some of these were quite elaborate and that's recently been given a sunroof which it helps the ground crews when they're maintaining the aircraft to keep out of the hot weather or the inclement weather and also does double duty of hiding what's parked under there. So whereas before you could say hey look there's three chase plans now you just

[00:43:00] see a roof. There was another set, reportedly some prototypes of that tested out there. I expect there's a lot of unmanned aerial vehicle activity

[00:44:21] going on, and who knows?

[00:44:23] There's just so many things they aren't telling us. hardware aircraft out there and that if either flown or is getting ready to fly soon, you know, I hope that's true. It would be very exciting. So this is a one of the things that I find kind of kind of funny. It's a little funny if you look at it. I mean, so Lockheed was apparently developing this program internally with with corporate funds as you mentioned. And then shortly after

[00:45:43] Russia's invasion of Ukraine, every that would be a subsonic platform. So you've really got a couple different kind of things. The subsonic stealthy platform seems to have been well into development since 2009 and is undoubtedly operational at this point, whereas this new high-speed platform is

[00:47:01] probably still still coming into being. So I guess the lower speed platform is

[00:48:05] different people work different aspects of the programs. It sounds like in the 1960s and 70s particularly

[00:48:13] into the 1980s, it was kind of the wild west out there.

[00:48:16] These guys were off on their own and had no adult supervision,

[00:48:22] so to speak.

[00:49:24] when they get the book, there's, you know, plenty of those little stories out there peppered

[00:49:32] all through it. So this is after all a conversation about Area 51. I'd be remiss not to at least mention the little green elephant in the room. So that's UFOs, Bob Lazar, all the many conspiracies.

[00:49:39] I mean, you're a serious person, you exist, but I also made sure to document it from start to finish with source notes. There are 47 pages of source notes at the back of the book

[00:51:00] because I wanted to show that I had done my homework

[00:51:02] from an academic standpoint.

[00:51:04] And also, I didn't want anyone to accuse me

[00:51:06] of using any sensitive materials. super secret and yet the Russians still manage to get all the information about our atomic weapons design. And during the programs of testing the MIG-21, for instance, that was a secret project and yet, within a couple months, it was already an aviation week in space technology.

[00:52:20] And so many of these programs just have a then will continue to be so. What are you most hopeful that readers will take away from the book? Well, mostly I wanted to demystify Area 51. I want them to see it as a real place with real people, to feel it, you know, to feel its realness and not just imagine it as a black hole of mystery and intrigue.

[00:53:43] Yeah, I think it's a the way to go with that. Thanks for listening. This is Secrets and Spies. and development. McDonald's, C's, supports, and celebrates day brings a new chance to collect daily bonuses. So join me and the fun. Sign up now at chumbahassino.com. No purchase necessary, V.T.W. Point Reverhibited by Loss in terms of conditions 18 plus. Your local McDonald's owners across Washington, D.C., Greater Baltimore, and Eastern Shore are committed community members who all celebrate the diversity of the neighborhoods that they serve.

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